Venice 2024 (Orizzonti): Pavements | Interview of Alex Ross Perry and Robert Greene
In this conversation, filmmaker Alex Ross Perry and producer/editor Robert Greene discuss their latest collaboration—a documentary Pavements that explores the legacy of Pavement, one of the most influential indie rock bands of the 1990s.
Presented in the Orizzonti section of the 81st Venice International Film Festival, Pavements defies traditional formats, weaving together five distinct elements: the band’s early days, their reunion tour, the creation of a Pavement museum, a musical, and a mock Hollywood biopic featuring Stranger Things star Joe Keery. We had the pleasure of sitting down with Alex Ross Perry and Robert Greene who reflect on the challenges of capturing the band’s complex artistic identity without resorting to conventional documentary tropes, balancing fan expectations, and the unique creative process behind the film. They also share insights into the cultural significance of Pavement, their approach to storytelling, and how they hope the documentary will reshape public perception of the band and its legacy.
Polina Grechanikova: Pavement’s legacy is often considered complex. How did you capture this complexity in the film while avoiding a typical documentary style?
Alex Ross Perry: We avoided the typical style because none of us wanted to go down that route. The band didn’t want to do standard interviews, and honestly, I had no interest in making that kind of film either. The complexity of the film came from how it evolved—unlike a scripted feature, where you can imagine how each scene fits together, this was different. I didn’t see an edited version of the movie while we were shooting. What I did see were four distinct filming projects: capturing the band’s reunion, their tour, the creation of a musical, and making a fake awards show with them. I knew we were gathering great material, but I couldn’t have told you how it would all fit together. That’s where Robert (Greene), with his experience in documentary filmmaking, came in. He had a sense of how to handle 150 hours of footage, guiding the project creatively since he’s the one with a deep connection to the band.
Robert Greene: When Alex first shared the idea, it was thrilling. Pavement’s blend of irony and sincerity—those two conflicting feelings—really spoke to me as a fan. Their lyrics often reflect on the pressures of success and how the world perceives them, not in the typical “I wish I was doing this” way, but more like, “You expect me to be a certain way, and now I’m dealing with that.” That’s what made them my favorite band. They didn’t just have great tunes; they were inspirational to me as a person. When Alex said we’d be mixing all these elements together, I knew it was the right approach. I remember saying early on that seeing Stephen Malkmus in his 50s, just trying, would mean so much to fans. For years, people weren’t sure if he cared or not, or if he was just a slacker. Capturing that would be essential because the band rarely does interviews or talks about themselves. So, if we could juxtapose a mockumentary role with the band’s efforts to reconnect with their past selves, we’d have something that truly reflected the essence of Pavement.
Polina Grechanikova: Balancing fan expectations with presenting a fresh, authentic view can be challenging, especially for a band with such loyal followers. How did you manage that balance? Were there specific elements or stories you chose to highlight or omit?
Alex Ross Perry: The challenge was clear from the beginning. As I said four years ago, if a screenwriter had to tell Pavement’s story, it wouldn’t be easy. Their career doesn’t fit neatly into a traditional narrative. They released albums that did well, then less well, and then they kind of hit rock bottom before bouncing back slightly. But there’s no big, dramatic story arc. The band’s last four years, for instance, are covered in about 15 minutes of the film because not much happened. There wasn’t much of a narrative there. Balancing these different threads—touring, the creation of a musical, and a museum—was a real challenge. It involved months of work with Robert, moving scenes around to get the right rhythm, ensuring the film didn’t feel like it was ending too soon or dragging on too long. In music documentaries, it’s common to skip over albums without a strong narrative. But Pavement’s story isn’t really about the albums—it’s about what it was like to be part of this band, both back then and now. We compensated for the lack of a conventional narrative by creating new ways of telling their story, finding moments that hit the right beats in the film’s flow.
Robert Greene: When it comes to fan service, the worst thing we could’ve done is make something too predictable. I was talking to Mark Ibold, the bassist, about this—Pavement’s music has a pop sensibility, but there’s always a bit of resistance. It’s never too easy, and that’s part of the appeal. We wanted the film to feel the same way—like you’re not quite sure what’s happening, but you want to watch it again. We treated the film like a record, with moments that hit just right but also moments that are off-kilter, making you engage with it more deeply. That’s the experience we wanted to give Pavement fans. There was never any pressure to make a film for people who wouldn’t appreciate it. We were making this for the fans, and also for those who might discover something new. People who weren’t Pavement fans have seen the film and said they loved how it’s about creativity and the process. Stephen Malkmus comes across as a unique figure—resistant to the typical rock star mold. His refusal to conform is inspiring, especially in a world where everything feels corporate. He had integrity, and that’s what we wanted to show in the film—how the band’s big ideas resonate with people who appreciate them.
Polina Grechanikova: How do you think this documentary might change how people perceive Pavement and their legacy?
Alex Ross Perry: When I started this project four years ago, the joke was, “Let’s make Pavement out to be the most important band ever.” We created a fictional, non-fiction film, with things like a museum and a musical, all tongue-in-cheek but grounded in reality. At first, it seemed absurd, but as the project progressed, things like the museum actually became real experiences for people. The musical, while not headed to Broadway, turned out to be surprisingly good. These efforts helped situate Pavement in the cultural landscape in ways people hadn’t expected.
The band’s resurgence on TikTok and their decision to embrace their legacy as they hit middle age has also shifted their place in the music world. What began as a kind of joke—treating them as one of the most influential bands—became a reality, at least for some. I hope that by the end of the film, people might start to believe that Pavement truly is one of the most important and influential bands. Even if they’re not touring anymore, this film offers a way for people to connect with them and their music for years to come.
Robert Greene: I think the band was misunderstood by a whole generation of music fans, who saw them as ironic and detached. But Pavement is so much more than that—they’re a band of ideas. They’re fun, too, which I think gets overlooked. There’s this playful and the presence of Bob on stage is just fantastic. I hope the documentary shows people how much fun this band is and how much joy there is in their music. It’s not just about the 90s indie scene or some niche cultural moment—it’s about creativity, throwing ideas out there, and finding magic in the chaos. That’s what I hope people take away: Pavement is a band worth paying attention to, not just because of their legacy, but because of the energy and ideas that still resonate today.
Explore our exclusive coverage of the 81st Venice International Film Festival here.
